shocker knots

[Sam]

Welcome aboard, Devo.

[sandfleas]

Can I ask a more specific question....

I'm going to buy a Shimano Baitrunner for my 12 foot Tica casting rod and planning to put 30 # braid on it (to get more line on the spool, better casting distance, and more taught line). To this I plan to attach up to 80 # mono as shock leader. Here's what I gather:

1. Nice rule stated earlier in this thread.... 10 # per oz. Since I often 8 and bait then max will be 80 lb but I'll proabably pack 50 # also.
2. WIll Slim Beauty work to attach mono to braid? Is there another knot that's as good but a little more simple (hey...I'm a simple man)?

3. Shock leader should be no more than 15 feet. So the knot will be just outside the leader on the tip ot the rod when casting??

4. Need a swivel for line twist, correct? I've heard that the swivel should be twice the line weight. So in this scernario a 60 # swivel as I'll be using 30 # braid.

5. Use uni-knot on either side of the swivel? Then attach terminal gear (e.g., top and bottom rig, mullet rig) to shock leader with uni-knot.

6. Then.... if using a fish finder rig then there would not be any shock line as this would limit the finder to the length of the shock line.

Sorry for all the questions but just trying to get to the bottom of it all.

Thanks for any response.

[devomd63]

Sandflea,

I'm not a braid user so I cannot speak to braid to mono knots, however, regardless of mainline type, when using a shock leader you want 3-5 wraps of shock leader on your spool when you have your "drop" for casting. Drop is the distance your wieght and bait hang from the tip of your rod at begining of cast motion.

The shock leader takes the strain of that intial surge of energy imparted on the line (P=M*V), and minimizes the likelyhood of a wieght snap-off during cast. (Bad/un-smooth casts can still lead to said snap-off).

The fishfinder rig is only allowed to slide the distance of the shock leader and that is more than enough to serve its pupose. In fact you do not want the fish finder to slide above the shocker/mainline connection, so technically you should use and orange bead above the fishfinder rig/sleeve when you tie on, this prevents FF rig travel above the knot.

If you start with 5 wraps on the spool you will have some room for re-ties of the terminal tackle on the end of shock leader if you notice fraying or knot fatigue.

You will find plenty of braid to mono knot sugestions here and on the web. The best thing to do is just practice and become confident with one or two that you can tie in any condition on the beach (Weather, night, refreshments).

Devo

[flame thrower]

Sandflea, I use the slim beauty to either braid to braid or braid to mono.

[sandfleas]

The orange bead suggestion is stellar. Can you describe more? I take it that the bead goes past the knot on the leader end.

5 wraps should do. So 5 wraps plus 12 ft pole length (I also have a 15 footer so apply the same logic) plus the drop, say 8 to 10 feet, all this equals .... 12 + 8 to 10 + 5 wraps or approximately 25 to 30 feet.

[sandfleas]

I want to mark this link so I can follow through with the discussion. How do you do that? Also, I cannot seem to get the search function to work. Thanks

[mdram]

at the top under thread tools, select subscribe to thread, you will get a mail each time a reply is posted

[ffemtreed]

I don't like using beads above the fish finder rigs at all. If you break your running line (17lb tri) when fighting a big fish (or any fish) then that fish has to drag that weight around with them until the hook rusts out, its almost sure death for that fish.

if you don't put the bead on the fishfinder rig will just slide right on off the shock leader and the fish won't have to drag around the weight.

[devomd63]

Jim,

After a pick-up on the fish finder rig, with out the bead as I sugested, you run the risk of having the FF and wieght run up and place a drag/strain on the weakest part of your set up (17 lb main line). Also, when fishing in crowded conrditions, limiting the travel helps to minimize tangles with your neigbor.

Not to sure about the weight dragging issue, I've never heard of fish kills due to that scenario....but maybe a case for it.

[ffemtreed]

Originally Posted by devomd63

Jim,

After a pick-up on the fish finder rig, with out the bead as I suggested, you run the risk of having the FF and weight run up and place a drag/strain on the weakest part of your set up (17 lb main line). Also, when fishing in crowded conditions, limiting the travel helps to minimize tangles with your neighbor.

Not to sure about the weight dragging issue, I've never heard of fish kills due to that scenario....but maybe a case for it.

I don't fish where its crowded so thats a non-issue for me. I would rather loose 1 out of a 100 fish that I hook up with than take the risk of every fish that breaks off dieing. Surely any fish dragging that weight around will either get too tired and die or get that weighted line wrapped all around something.

Physics says that when you are reeling in a fishy that the fishfinder rig will make its way towards the hook and not slide up the shock leader. Only when the fish is running away will the slide go up the shock leader. When this happens the fish finder will eventually hit the sandy bottom (due to angles, try and picture it) Once that happens that weight is just going to stay there until it snags on the hook that you are reeling back in (hopefully with the fish still attached).

This being said I pulled in a couple fish this past summer like big rays and sharks (a couple of which took nice runs) and NEVER had a problem with the fish finder sliding up the running line. If you are using a plastic fish finder slide I don't see any chance of that damaging the running line even if it does slide up. If you are using a swivel I guess you might have a problem if there is a burr or something that damages the running line but its highly unlikely IMHO.

If you are going to use beads check out the craft store or crafts section of wally world.

[Charkbait]

I agree that a fish draggin a sinker willl surely die but physics or not the FF does clear the shocker knot on a run off in some situations. The plastic ones almost never do but snaps and other rigs will. I stopped using beads and went back after some hand lining of big stripers after fighting the fish with the sinker doing a loopdy loop the whole way in threatening to break me off...not fun and a hell of a thing to lose your only fish after 30+hours fishing.

again, how many fish have you lost be breaking your running line? Until I do lose one, the bead stays on top. In most cases of people pulling in fish dragging a sinker I'd bet the running line broke on a cast and the fish picked up the bait, if I have a lot of break offs for some reason on a trip it is certainly something I take into account.

[devomd63]

We all love to fish our own way so , don't get me wrong. I didn't invent the method, just fished it successfully for 20 years and yes, i did ask others why the bead is used on top!

As for Wally World, well , no comment. I buy from the local shops.

Beads and all....

Also, I stopped using the plastic slides years ago for safety reasons.

See ya on da Beach