Boat Equipment

[fish-aholic]

Ok, so when I move I'm getting a boat, But I've been told that I will have a $$$$ limit, this limit will include anything extra I have to buy for the boat as well. Including Rods. Since I intend on occassionally making the 30-60 mile run offshore, Here's What I'm thinking 2 Tiagra 50W's and 4 Tiagra 30W's. I figure the 30W can handle the stuff offshore, but is also small enough to use trolling for King's etc. I know I'm looking at about $500 for the 30w and 650 for the 50w. And I know they are reliable reels. Anyone else have a suggestion on what would be a good set up? My two big reels, I'm thinking I want to stay with the Tiagra, no matter what reel I get that size its gonna be pricey, so I may as well stick with reels that are highly rated. now the smaller reels...is a 30W really neccessary? Probably not, although a 30W would be nice when drifting over a wreck for grouper, but I'm sure there are other options out there that I can get for less than 2000 in reels LOL......

[Randy Stinchcomb]

Jeff, have you look at Avets yet? my brother has bought @6 over the last year and rave's about them. for good rods, Penn has always been good, as has Seeker and St Croix too

oh and don't forget your saftey equipment, plenty of extra flares and maybe an EIRPB

[fish-aholic]

Yeah, Safety equipment is standard....I don't leave the dock on my bass boat without it. nets, gaffs, measuring sticks etc....those are pretty standard across the board, and combined maybe the cost of 1 of the reels I'm looking at getting...Avets are nice, but from looking they are just as expensive as the Shimano or Penns aren't they?

[Bohica]

Jeff,

I use Penn Senator 113's and 114H's on 5' tuna sticks. IMO the best rig for the money.....If I was to re-rig I'd probably go Avet.

There was a pretty good post on another board back in april that I thought I'd share:

First, I'm going to make a bold statement and tell you that unless you are a charter boat, fish everyday, or write-off your tackle expenses, I see no reason for you to have to buy those gold reels. If you have deep pockets, and want them, go for it! The graphite bodied reels have proven themselves for several years now, and I can attest to their strength and durability. Most reel companies have felt the sting of competition and made significant improvements to their reels to keep a slice of the pie.

Let's get real and tackle the hard questions. How many of us really know how to select tackle for the fish we are going to catch, or are likely to catch? What about our capabilities to use the tackle we think we need, or we have now? At the end of the season, how many times have we been spooled, or nearly spooled, by a fish? Do we fish from a chair, or stand up? Do we use a stand-up system, or wrap a belt around our waist? Are our lures up to 8" in length, 12", or 16"? Do we keep in shape to fight a fish for an hour under a heavy drag, or get most of our exercise mowing the lawn? At the end of the year, how many fish did we catch over 100#, or lose because our tackle was insufficient? These are a few questions to help us make a wise selection when considering tackle to buy, or setting up the tackle we are using. Consider using tackle targeted to what we are most likely going to catch, but has the capability of landing a fish larger than our normal target.

Now let's look at some facts to help us along our journey to being smarter. First, when you are choosing a reel, know what features you need, and what you would like to have. Then select a size and model that fit's your requirements.

1) You want spool capacity of about 500 yds or more to allow a fish to run a good distance before you can turn the boat to chase it, or back down on it. Don't forget, you'll probably have other lines in the way you have to clear once the fish is hooked, and there may be more than one fish hooked up. A note to remember; the more line you have out, the higher the drag pressure goes due to spool diameter changes. Also, the more line in the water, the more drag on the line from pressure against it moving through the water. Once you have over 300 yds of line in the water, it gets pretty iffy on the line holding up to all the pressure on it. The line can, and does, break just by the pressure on it being dragged through the water. More line on the spool allows the drag to maintain it's setting better, and helps the reel recover line faster due to the spool diameter. Keep this in mind when we talk about lines.

2) You are going to want a smo-o-o-th drag. What is smooth? The best way to describe it is when you have a running fish the rod tip doesn't bounce up and down. The bounce is caused by the drag loading, then releasing, then loading again, etc. When a drag is smooth it starts to allow the spool to turn at a precise setting, every time, at the same setting. This beginning of the drag to turn is called "Break-Free." It's the point where the drag stops holding the spool from turning. If you set the drag at 10# with a scale, it should move at 10#, not 10# cold, then 12#, or 15# as it gets hot. Lever drag reels have much bigger drag components than star drag reels, so they have more capability to maintain a good drag setting than a star drag reel. Reels with wet (oil lubed) drags don't hold up well on offshore reels. Stick with dry drag reels. Stick with reels that don't use hard fiber drags like automotive brake lining material. If your drags are set-up with those washers, replace them with 'SMOOTH DRAG' brand washers. They're cheap, and much better quality. On some reel models, get the metal washers also when offered. If the metal washers aren't offered, sand your metal washers on both sides by laying them on a sheet of 320 grit emery paper placed on a sheet of flat metal or glass and move them in a circular motion. Finish sand them with 600 grit, then polish them with a buffing wheel and red rouge. The idea is to flatten the stamped washer by sanding off any high spots, then polishing them so they are mirror smooth on the surfaces. I can't begin to tell you how much this improves the drag on a lot of star drag reels. Clean them with lacquer thinner and let dry before installing them. When you clean and lube a reel, make sure no grease gets to the drag washer. Grease and oil will ruin any dry drag system and cause it to chatter. Over lubing a reel is the biggest cause of drag failure. If you have oil on a drag washer you may be able to soak them in lacquer thinner, or spray them clean with brake cleaner, or choke cleaner and reuse them. Make sure you clean the metal washers, and the drag cup/main gear that the drag system sits in also.

If possible, go with the lever drag reels.

3) Now let's look at gear ratio's, and whether we want a single speed, or two-speed reel. If you are sticking with a star drag reel, there are a few considerations. Cranking on heavy fish is not easy, so don't go crazy on speed unless the reel has an enlarged main gear system to off-set the cranking power required to turn the handle. Penn Senator's have always had a great power to speed ratio for cranking fish. Even the higher speed Senator's are fairly easy to crank under a load. Not so with say a Shimano TLD 25 lever drag reel. Great reel, just hard to crank under a heavy load. Far to fast a gear system for my old arms. If you look at reels like Okuma's Convector, and Shimano's Trinidad, you'll notice larger gear boxes to accommodate the larger gears to make cranking easier at higher speed ratio's.

If you are ready to go to a lever drag reel, look for the larger main gears, or select a two-speed model. I highly recommend the two-speed reels for overall performance, and in Shimano's the two-speeds have more bearings on the spool and gear assy's than the less expensive single speed lever drag reels. Just pick the best you can afford. On single speed reels, you can always buy a longer custom handle that gives you more cranking power with less fatigue.

4) Level wind reel, or not. NOT! The level wind systems are driven by plastic gears and won't hold up under heavy drag settings you will be using for this type of fishing. You'll be replacing drive gears and pawls so much you'll elect to dismantle it sooner or later anyway.

5) Finally, let's make a decision. Assuming you are going to fish from the Light Ship and out, you are likely to run into some bad boy's if you're lucky. So let's not blow a chance at bringing home a decent fish if we get one on, and still leave enough in the piggy bank to pay for gas.

Considering your catch is likely to consist of BF Tuna, King Mackerel, Dolphin, Wahoo, YF Tuna, White Marlin, and possibly the man in the Blue Suit, you are going to want to have line capacity, a good drag system, and be comfortable holding onto the outfit for quite a while. In reality, what do we need to accomplish this, and not take out a second mortgage to afford it?

I'd consider going with 20# class reels if you don't care about landing the occasional fish over 100#, and 30# class if you do. Not to say 20# gear won't handle a large fish, but it's an all day adventure unless you have the skill to do better. Personally, I'd pick the 30# class since the price difference is minimal, and the options are better. My personal choice would be a Shimano TLD 2-speed LRS. The LRS model's (Long Range Special) have more bearings, and are capable of reaching higher drag settings so you can use higher test lines. The extra bearings support the spool and gear systems for the extra drag pressure that can be applied. (Gotta love them Shimano's.) If I wanted to stay with a single speed lever drag, I opt for the Shimano Tyrnos TYR30. It has the oversize gears for easier cranking, and 5:1 gear ratio for speed. It's a sweet package with an all alum body. You check out you favorite brand and look for similar model's.

Considering the spool capacity of these 20# and 30# class reels, you are going to want to up the yardage to keep the spool fuller on those occasions when something bigger than normal decides to eat. (Just for the record, I'd do this on no matter what size reel I had just to cut down on line usage, and spool diameter changes on long running fish.) I load my reels with 300 to 500 yd's of braid, then fill the reel the rest of the way with mono. The result is a 30% to 50% increase in line capacity, and you never have to change the braid. Once all the mono is in the water, and the braid starts to flow, the pressure on the thinner braid lessens the drag pressure. Because the braid is thinner, the spool diam. has less change, so the drag doesn't change as much, and you won't have to back off on the drag as much due to spool diam. changes. Cost wise, you only need to change the 200-300 yds of mono on the top shot rather than the whole spool of line. That's half of a 1/4 spool of line most of the time.

[Bohica]

So let's assume you decide to set-up your reel with a top-shot of mono over braid. You want to use 30# mono for the top-shot, and you have to decide on a braid. I wouldn't go with a 30# braid just because of the small diameter. You'd have to load a gazillion yards of it to make a difference in the spool diameter. We want to put 300-500 yds on the reel, and still have enough room for 150 yds or more of mono. Remember, we're trying to up the yardage, so we need to get smaller in diameter than the 30# mono. Considering that braid is about half the dia. of mono for the same pound test, we need to be quite a bit smaller than that to make the difference. If I remember correctly, and I do, 65# braid -16# mono, 50#-12# mono. These line diam. are for Power Pro Braids. That means that by loading 500 yds of 50# Braid on the reel, then top-shotting with 185 yds of 30# mono, you get an additional 185 yds of line on the spool. Additionally, you will only have to change the top-shot of mono to replace the line, and since a 1/4# spool of Big Game mono costs about $7-$8 a spool @ 440 yds per spool, you can change the top-shot on your reel for $4. This also opens up the opportunity to change line sizes, like going down to 20# or 25#, or up to 40# when you want to. You may want to switch up to heavier line on some reels just for chunking and still have the line capacity to go toe to toe with a nice Blue fin. It's not like you have to dump a full spool of line to change out. Not a bad deal over the long haul, and certainly worth considering. Just make sure you load the braid very tight, and connect the braid to a few feet of mono before winding it on the reel. The braid will slip on the spool if you try to tie it direct to the spool. If your reel has a spool pin, the mono is not necessary. Braid connection to mono is done by doubling the braid to bulk it up then making a loop with a Bimini Twist and super glue the winds. Doubling the braid helps to divide the stress over a greater area on the mono so it won't cut into it. Using super glue locks the braid coils and insulates them with glue so it won't cut itself. Use another Bimini or an Albright Special in the mono to connect the mono to the braid. Make your loops 12" long to be able to slip the mono line spool through them 3-5 times before pulling the loops tight. This also spreads the pressure on the lines over a greater area.

Or....you can simply fill the reel with mono and make sure you change it during the season if you're fishing a lot.

If you're already set up and like what you have, stick with it. Make sure you keep your reels in good shape, especially the drag systems. When cleaning them after a trip, tighten the drags all the way before washing them off. Instead of hitting them with a hose, it's better to spray them down with Salt-X and let them dry. Back the drags off after the reels are dry so the drag springs don't take a set and the washers don't compress. Set the drags with a spring scale just before each trip.

When I think of selecting a rod for offshore fishing, I want to pick one that is suitable for both trolling and chunking. I want something that will give me both power to lift a deep fish, have a light enough tip to protect light leaders, and be capable of hooking fish on the troll without pulling a large hole in the fishes mouth to let someone else enjoy those steaks another day. The rod needs to have quality components, good looks, and be light in weight so I don't fight the tackle more than the fish. It needs to be short enough to keep the leverage advantage on my side, and long enough to work the tip around the outboards when the fish plays tag with the props. I swing both ways with guide selection, and I like both ring guides as long as they're some kind of ceramic material, and I like roller guides as long as I don't have to be the one cleaning them all the time to keep them rolling. I guess my preference would be a roller tip with ring guides the rest of the way.

To me, more important than the type of guides, is the number of guides on the rod blank, and I test them before I buy them. Another problem with bargain rods is the placement of the guides on the blank, and then the quality of the blank needs to be considered.

Let's start with the blank since it's the first part of the rod the builder starts with. I like sanded rods, those without the spiral finish on the outside like Ugly Sticks. The spirals are from not finish sanding the blank, and that means the blank does not have the same wall thickness all the way around it. This will cause a big problem when the rod is loaded and it torques to one direction or another making you fight that torque to keep the reel in the up position. Some of us have probably noticed that problem when fighting a large fish. You can witness the same torque if the guides are not properly placed on the spline of the blank, or opposite the spline. The rod will want to roll to one side or the other to correct the spline. You can, and should check all rod's you plan to buy before you lay down the credit card by running some line through the guides and having someone pull on the line while you put a heavy bend on the rod. If the rod wants to roll, select another one. If they're aren't enough guides, or they are positioned wrong on the blank, or the wrong size, the line will want to touch the rod blank, or the rod grip when you put a heavy bend in it. Look for another rod.

Since I feel that a 30# class outfit is about all you need for offshore fishing, I'd select a rod rated for 30# class. That would be a 20#-50# stand-up rod, or a 20# or 30# trolling rod. If I were fishing a 50# outift for stand-up, I'd go with something that's rated for 30#-80# lines. Anything rated for more than that is way too stiff for me, or the average person to utilize.

[Bohica]

The material a blank is made out of makes a big difference in how it works for you, or against you. The way a blank is designed can do the same thing. Remember that we aren't talking about feeling a bite, or casting a lure. We want a blank that will take a beating, and keep on ticking. Traditionally, trolling rod's were parabolic in action. This means they bend all the way to the rod grip. That's okay for trolling, and keeps from ripping the hooks out of a fish on the strike, but does little for lifting a fish that is deep. The moving boat helps lift the fish, and the rod's bend keeps tension on the line. That 7' rod is great when you have a chair and gimbal to hold the weight of the outfit for you, and the length helps keep the line off the transom while you sit in a chair. When you use the same rod for chunking, or fight the fish standing up, that added length and soft blank put a lot of leverage against the angler, and means you have to make long lifts with the rod to make it bend enough to lift the fish. This is why stand-up rod's are shorter with faster actions. Rod blanks are made out of a bunch of materials today, but the standard materials are tubular glass. You may have noticed E-glass, S-glass, composites, and graphite as some of the nomenclature to describe glass blanks. If you stick with a name brand rod company, select a tubular rod (not solid glass) and it is E-glass or E-glass/graphite composite you will be fine. I like the composite rod's better for the softer glass tips and powerful graphite composite butt sections, but most companies build more glass into the butts for more power and faster recovery anyway. Go with what you like in the way of weight and quality of components. A six foot rod is about the best all around length for stand-up fishing since it keeps the leverage on your side, and lets you reach around the motor's better. It's a good length to be able to reach the tip of the rod when you want to reset that rod's line in an outrigger clip also, especially if you're Jon's size. Solid glass rod's are just too soft and slow to be a good value despite their price for large fish. They are heavy in weight, and when pumping a fish will kill you is you aren't in shape. Same goes with all graphite rods. The are light in weight, but the stiffness is a killer on the weak back and average arms of most people. Stick with tubular glass, or glass/graph composite rods.

On to more components. The reel seats should be big game style graphite, and alum. or stainless steel is better. If graphite, make sure you use reel clamps with them. They need to have heavy duty nuts that won't slip when you use a strap wrench to tighten them. You do use a strap wrench....right?

I like alum butts, and I never had one break. The plastic butts make me nervous when you start trolling with them, and all I can think about is watching a reel go airborne on a good tuna strike. If you got them, use safety lines on the reels. If you have wood butts, it's time to upgrade. When that bugger breaks, not if, but when, you may be eating the reel, and you will be losing your gear.


Grips should be at least 12" with 14" or 16" better for stand-up fishing. Even when fishing in a chair, those 8" and 10" grips are just too short to work properly. I like my grips about 1 1/2" in diameter, but some may line theirs 1 1/4". Some like them tapered, and I like my straight. Some people like softer Hypalon, some the harder EVA foams. The EVA foams hold up better, and they seem to keep my hands from cramping as much. The selection is up to you, but most companies have gone to EVA now. Make sure you try the grip before you buy the rod to make sure it doesn't twist on the blank before you take it home. If it breaks loose fishing, it can be re glued without removing it.

Rod guides, again, a bunch of choices. I like ceramic ring guides, and roller guides, but I hate to have to disassemble those rollers to clean and lube them. Don't worry about braids cutting into the ceramic guides either. Even the cheapest (Hardloy) rings will hold up under braided lines....I promise. Like I mentioned earlier, make sure you have enough guides on the rod and they are placed correctly so the line never touches the rod blank or the grip when the rod is in a heavy bend. Also check that they are positioned on the blank so there is no torque on the guides making it want to roll on you when loaded. You may want to find a rod that has guides that are triple wrapped if you can, but make sure the guides have wraps under the metal guide feet so they don't cut into the blank when the rod flexes. Any saltwater rod should be double wrapped at a minimum.

Butt sections....metal. If you have plastic butts, use the safety lines to keep the outfit if the butt section breaks. The rest of the rod can be set up with a metal butt section so you don't lose everything. The gimbal should be metal, but many manufactures are using plastic. Not a reason to not buy a rod, and can be easily replaced for cheap, so not a deal breaker.

[Bohica]

Man, that's a long post....

[ocsnapper]

Bob writing a book, nice post .

[Randy Stinchcomb]

Originally Posted by Bohica

Man, that's a long post....

sure was Bob

now my take on reels that are graphite or have graphite reel seats, don't buy them for heavy off-shore use and here is why. day after day in and out of the hot sun, saltwater and all takes it toll on the graphite and I've seen too many of them break at the real seat and usally when you have a BIG fish-on
the graphite just does not hold-up well when exposed to UV's. I have also seen graphite reel side plates explode due to UV fatigue when fighting BIG fish. I have Penn Senators too and there good for the bay and such but I preferr all aluminum construction reels for heavy off-shore adventures

[TOO EZ]

duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude

YOU GOT WAY TOO MUCH TIME IN YOUR HANDS TODAY!!! LMAO!

Ok... I can't read all 10 pages but, it looked like some good reads. I'll read it when I get down on the boat tonight... On the Potty (LOL!)

Avets Suck IMO.
Too much Back lashing going on.

Tiagra are nice reels. I'm not a big fan of them - but, Jim has a few and does ZERO maint to them and they are still kicking.

I have all Gold Penn Internationals. 4 of everything - 20's, 30's, 50, and and 80. I have a Tiagra LT15 and some cheapie Shakespeares for wreck fishing. I LOVE my Golds but, they need to be maintained.

You need to wash your reels down after every use and dry them off. We also use Salt -Ex or Salt Away when we are done. Spray it on - Wash it off and dry off your rods and reels.

I'll throw in some GOOD KARMA REELS when you buy my Blackfin.


OK! I'm outta here 'till Mon. Heading down to the boat now for the Tourney!

Catch em up

[Bohica]

Just for clarification, I didn't write that. Brad from SF did in April.

I'm not sure that I agree with everything there, but there is some good info.