Proposed OverSand Vehicle Permit Increase

[Coop]

Then you may run the risk of people parking there at night and heading to the beach to sleep. I think we need to look at it from the NPS point of view at times. I think a sign like that will keep out 99.9% of the people from taking advantage of overnight parking with intentions to sleep, whether on the beach or in the car. Maybe they should have a sign saying "sleeping is prohibited at night"

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Coop

I am sure I'll get the thumbs down on this but I think it would be a very bad idea to have non self contained vehicles in the bull pen...

For starters, you will have every joe packed in their spending the night whether fishing or not. I understand that many of you guys would like to take a nap, but if you allow non self contained vehicles in the bull pen, I am willing to bet, the majority of the people without campers will not be fisherman.

Secondly, I am sure that the beach will fill up faster with many people who normally couldn't sleep there now can...making it even harder for many to get on the beach.

I understand where you guys are coming from, but overall, I think it would be a bad idea.

Heavy Duty wrote : "I do not expect the rules regarding the Bull Pen to change regarding the requirement of self containment. We will certainly discuss it with them, but they have firm opinions on this subject."

I personally wouldn't even bring up this subject. Lets pick our fights and not create new ones. I personally like the rules set now and am ok with the increases, still a bargain. The way things are going now...Currently with everything going down with the environmentalist, lets fight for keeping and not trying to get more.

Everyone wants this and that, but seriously, we need to fight for keeping access for everyone, PERIOD!

Well put, Scott. I know a lot of you all have to drive hundreds of miles and many hours and really don't want to stop at a hotel... But, I would like to see the bull pen kept like it is. They have already dozed the dunes and now they have no protection from the wind. All we need is a bunch of extra vehicles and porta-poties. No thanks.

[trowpa]

Originally Posted by Coop

Maybe they should have a sign saying "sleeping is prohibited at night"

Exactly - not to remove the sign - just to be more specific. Small point - just don't like feeling like a criminal while i fish.

Completely understand the problem with distinguishing between honest fisherman and more suspect motives/activities....tough to find a solution that works for everyone

[Carrie]

Will there be a petition at EXPO? Could they also be put in tackle shops?

[Sam]

Absolutely. If we could get some volunteers together, I could send out packets with the forms and maybe some of you could take to your local tackle shops all over the east coast.

[gozlee]

Originally Posted by mdram

i actually sent them an email suggesting they treat the bull pen as a campground, requiring registration and reservations and payment for its use, that would generate quite a bit of income and render offset many of the proposed fee changes. why should it be free?

Because the last few times you have been to AI it barely cost you a dime. You went with me. Why charge us to stay in the bullpen, we don't take up extra beach space,itactually cuts down on traffic up & down the beach, because we only go on and off once a weekend ,not daily, back an forth.Which is better on the beach!Extra ORV pricing I don't like but would pay.

[Heavy Duty]

A petition? For what? I must have missed something. Sorry. What do you want to send out to tackle shops? Regardless, typically individual letter writing works best when dealing with the Federal Government.

[lookinbeachie]

Coop/Scott
YOU hit the nail right on!! I totally agree with what you said about the bullpen..... and also like you said, let's at least keep what we got!!

H.D./Sam and Carrie
On a petition and/or ind.letters to the Fed. Gov., I wonder if both would be a good idea...?!? If a petition would help in anyway? I know for sure the ind. letters should be written from as many that can!
Dianne

[esoxangler]

I think Scott is right about the bullpen.

The sign at the parking lots is wrong. You can park overnight in the lots. What you cannot do is sleep in your vehicle. I have asked about this many times. I don't think anybody will bother your vehicle. Now if it were there for more than 36 hours someone might look into it. But when I am going to be there a long time I try to tell someone about it.

What is this expo people are talking about?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Heavy Duty

A petition? For what? I must have missed something. Sorry. What do you want to send out to tackle shops? Regardless, typically individual letter writing works best when dealing with the Federal Government.

http://www.umsnet.com/umsletter.pdf

I was thinking of the Audubon article letter.

[sandcaster]

Your representatives look at phone calls, emails, and personal letters. They equal a greater force. If 10 - 20 people call, write it becomes an important matter on their radar of our elected officials. I posted a web page for Maryland, Delaware, and Pennsylvania that has your Federal representatives listed, or that you can find their addresses, email, or phone numbers. The new Senator Cardin from Maryland was most helpful. The others were polite, but this is not on their radar screen yet. My suggestion is to call, write if you are unhappy with the fee structures. As I mentioned before what is the loss of $100,000 is a lot but compared to the 1 billion + that the Government Accounting Office cant account for in Iraq a drop in the bucket.

I cant believe that the park service would want another tag to look at and patrol for. You are off the beach at 12:10 and you get a ticket. Great public relations..... makes you feel like Cinderella. It just doesn't make sense to me at all. Do away with the day use and make it just one fee.

[Heavy Duty]

Please do not turn the fee change into something it isn't. It is simply to recover the costs to operate the special use zone as defined by NPS operating regulations. The OSV zone is considered a special use zone and by regulation, all special use zones should pay for themselves. It is not foreseen to increase the policing efforts as each permit will be different color for easy identification. Areas that do not pay for themselves will certainly bring more attention than those areas that are within operating guidelines.

I currently am not planning on discussing sleeping in the in non-self contained vehicles in the bull pen with the NPS based on the views here. If the general opinion changes, I will be happy to put it as an agenda item at one of our quarterly meeting.

The current comment items are for the OSV zone in Cape Hatteras and the letter placed on the UMS site in response to the Audubon Magazine. We have discussed creating a form letter for the OSV zone in Hatteras, but in order to be accepted and used, it must contain specific personal information. If it is felt that a form letter that contains the necessary OSV zone information to where each person just needs to edit it as they wish and complete the personal information section, I will be happy to make one available.

[ocsnapper]

I have to agree with HD on what he has stated.... the rates down at AI have not gone up since I think 2002, that's 5 years to me that increases is not to much to ask for. I own my own business and if I raised my prices every time I had an increase in the product that I bought, my customers would have a fit. So I have to wait till the increases justifies raising the price of my product, it sucks. But things will cost more as time goes on that's the way of thing so get use to it. As limiting the access or how far down the beach we are aloud to go, well now that is something to get involved with, if we as a fishing community let them start to take away that from us in time the only place you will be able to fish is in your own bath tub, and I for one am not ready to give up any more of my rights! I enjoy the outdoors weather I'm fishing or just out to look at the surroundings that take my breath away, I want to enjoy that till the day I die and hope it's there for my children's children.

[Carrie]

Not to be the one with weird ideas, but I want to do anything within my power to keep the beach open. I don't want to just waste time doing something that is not effective though. If individual letters and phone calls are more effective, what if we print out generic letters where people can fill in their name and any info they want to add, print out labels and put on envelopes with the address of who it needs to go to. We could have these at the EXPO. We could let people put their own stamp on it, but a lot would get thrown away. We could have a jar to take postage donations. Have the phone number written on a poster with an idea of what they should say and encourage people to call right there. Something could also be printed in the newspaper to let the public know what is going on now, what may come and what they can be doing (I would read it because I am not completely sure.) Again, the address and phone number would be included. Just some ideas. This is too important to just talk about.

[Randy Stinchcomb]

sounds like a Great IDEA Carrie


ok, I nominate Carrie for the position for Atlantic Anglers Legislator, all in favor